From rationaldl@... Mon Sep 05 11:24:01 2005 Return-Path: X-Sender: rationaldl@... X-Apparently-To: 12-step-free@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64938 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2005 18:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2005 18:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.230) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 18:24:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 8924 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Sep 2005 18:24:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20050905182401.8922.qmail@...> Received: from [162.84.178.99] by web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:24:00 PDT Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:24:00 -0700 (PDT) To: 12-step-free@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050905.113812.2420.2.thearidsite@...> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.230 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: donald lee Subject: Re: [12-step-free] Re: Orange Papers back online! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=212857078; y=ph_aaIukXzOObk4lzBQswGBjDWiFylGWDu-9zli9wKmGOi5ttg X-Yahoo-Profile: rationaldl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do believe that the stats are similar for all methods of recovery. Even for those without any type of program. There is some truth and logic in the written words, throughout the 12 steps. That's part of it What people haven't realized is that it becomes a total way of life. I have found that it is the areas around the 12 steps, hospitals shrinks aftercare who make the bucks, mess with you just as bad. etc If people are hapy there let them stay, even if only three addicts a year are makimg it. But don't be stupid enough to tell anyone that it is the only way, and that you are all that in treatment. Don't be that obtuse as to where you think you may plot scheme or even begin to harass outsiders without dire consequenses. Make a meeting, go home and that's as good as it gets. Whe shit happens now. It can be traced to you. Sincerely rationaldl ARID Site wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3 Sep 2005 14:06:37 -0000 12-step-free@yahoogroups.com writes: > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:50:07 -0000 > From: "Catherine" > Subject: Re: Orange Papers back online! > > But then what accounts for all those folks who have all those years > and people like my > father. It does work for a lot of people - or does it just appear > that way statistically? The mantra that "It Works" is only an illusion. The dropout rate is so high (95% by the end of one year, 81% during the first 30 days) that A.A. even has a slogan for it: "Revolving Door". Each oldtimer literally represents THOUSANDS of those who didn't make it. And of the quality of their Time they are perpetually angry, cranky and overtly disturbed. They are, sadly, working The Program as intended: As a substitute addiction (A.A. pp. 152). They are as hopelessly addicted to it as their former vice. And if A.A. were to disband they would suffer the pangs of withdrawal. THAT is why they proselytize and recruit. They're NOT saving lives in the Twelfth Step work but trying to keep A.A. around so that they can get their next "fix". dr.bomb, Ph.D. AVRT(tm) \_____________________________ Editor of The ARID Site: http://thearidsite.tripod.com PGP keys at http://thearidsite.tripod.com/ARIDPGPK.TXT ** The Twelve Steps are a downward spiral staircase ** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.5.8 iQA/AwUBQxxZUbw9MOKEeRC8EQJSaQCg/mnL0nAlOHO5V8A8C57mV2gflHwAoPsU BGw2dmwYOJ+lFWB1YVotVJzq =9lVA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "12-step-free" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 12-step-free-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------